I didn't really feel like grinding tonight, so instead I thought I'd go through my hands in Hold 'Em Manager and pick out some interesting ones to discuss, both good and bad.
The Good:
My most profitable hands are very uninteresting, lots of me hitting big hands and getting paid off, and lots more blind stealing and taking down pots with c-bets. What I did want to bring up were some compelling reasons not to slow play your big hands in PLO.
This is a great example where villain did pretty much everything wrong. He has AdKcQhAh. Not 3betting this is terrible, that hand is a monster and villain has the button. The flop was great for my hand and the villain loses massive value by flatting my c-bet. When I check the turn villain should be betting here 100%. His hand has become vulnerable on that board, and the last thing he should be doing is letting me draw for free. The river is obviously a great card from me, and at least villain recognizes the scary board and flats. If the flop were rainbow, I think the river may actually be a fold for his hand, but folding AAxx getting 3:1 is tough and perhaps not correct.
Another AA hand, this time villain has AcAd2h6h. Raggy aces can be tricky to play postflop, especially unsuited. Villain should be raising pre here to isolate, and if he takes the hand down right there, no big loss. Villain once again loses value on the flop by simply calling a bet, letting me draw to the nuts for cheap. I should probably be check/raising here, but I don't mind keeping the pot small while drawing, and keeping it 3-way is a nice potential bonus. Checking the turn is awful, letting people draw to a flush for free when you have top set is right there on top of the list of things you shouldn't do. I should have bet more on the river, but I was hoping one of them should show up with the Q or J high flush and come over the top.
No aces this time for villain, who instead has Kc3sKsTh. The hand plays out much the same, villain flops a monster and lets me into a pot I have otherwise no business being in. Once again I think I bet too small on the river.
So, let's recap:
1) Don't slow play big hands in PLO. Over pairs and sets are vulnerable, get your money in while they're the nuts and don't let people chase for free.
2) I don't ever fold to min bets.
The Bad:
This is probably my most interesting hand. Sucks when an over comes when it's 3 way, anyone still c-bet that flop? My turn bet size is debatable too. I get some more value from hearts than if I just half-potted it, but I also risk more to try and make an ace fold. I think I prefer check/calling the river to shoving, but it's close.
This is pretty standard. Anyone prefer donking to check/raising?
I also have 66 on this hand. If I remember right, villain had been c-betting a lot and I thought a 942 flop was a good spot to raise/fold. Does anyone advocate folding, calling the 0.40, or calling the shove?
The Ugly:
Ok, so I *may* have been drunk and *may* have thought I turned the straight in this hand. But rule 1 came through big for me any way.
I got a little bet-happy here. I think I should have given up when called on the turn (or the flop?), but I can't believe that I got called by a river'd pair of queens.
Thoughts from the peanut gallery?
Is this thing on?
11 years ago
6 comments:
I think on the 66 hand where you flopped open ender, you have a pretty easy decision on the flop whether you want to donk or go for a check raise. Simple question is "Is this guy more likely to call off or cbet here?" Assuming you were at the table for a bit and hand an idea I would just follow that. If you were new to the table I would donk in as passiveness is more prevalent than aggression at these stakes.
Btw I was sweating Chuck in horror as he jammed the turn having made like nothing on the turn in the PLO hand where he thought he made the straight.
Even after the hand he was like "Well I need to get value on the turn.."
I'm like, "Chuck you didn't have anything"
No I turned a straight.
No. You *rivered* a straight.
Oh ya lol. brb I'm getting another drink..
...
On the 942 flop with 66, I like the line a lot. You can bet a little less for the same effect though.
It's a nice play cause it gets some value out of flush draws/overs, and also folds out the 2 big cards that missed which is fine here imo.
Also plenty of overpairs are possible for this guy so it's a pretty clear fold when he shoves. He does show up with a lot of flush draws here too imo, but they are almost all overs as well. Very thin spot, and when you put overpairs in his range you can't be ahead. (right?)
Run good > play good, obv
It's funny because I actualy get a great price on the turn shove. When the 3s peels I'm 2:1 in the hand, so if I shove I either get a fold, which is great, or get called for an effective price of 3:1.
The math is of course skewed because I put in so much money as a 5:1 dog on the turn, but that's a whole other issue :).
^^ Previous comment is re: my awesome PLO play.
In the 66 hand where I raise/folded, I think his shove range is almost entirerly made up of overpairs, and maybe AdKd, AdQd. I handen't noticed villain pushing his draws very hard, so I figured I'd get a call from most flush draws, which makes the fold easy.
I agree with almost everything you have Marsh and said but a couple minor points.
Villain in the AAKQ hand where he fails to 3 bet preflop. I agree here not 3 betting is weak from the button. However, I do not consider his post flop play in this hand to be atrocious.
Flop is 793 with 2 diamonds and you bet out at it. A call is likely appropriate here. Villain is not ahead of a random 2 pair of any good wrap and flush draw which is highly likely on a 79 board.
River pairs the bottom card. Yeah I prefer a bet but a check is not awful here. If you have a 3 or a set he is drawing almost dead. The 3 is a good card in general though as it will counterfit top 2 so I think a bet is best. By checking he can also fold to a diamond or a Jack which completes the open ender on the river. Turns out you had neither and may have checked rather than bluff and he would win.
Now if the river is a total blank like a Q or K or 2, if you are on a draw you would likely bet with no showdown value and villain can call and hope his Aces up are good which they likely are.
Turns out with the actual hands played he gives you a free card for your 3 outer as all other random 2 pairs are not good.
I like your aggressive though maybe drunk play with the low rundown. Jeppe Bech who plays $2/$4 does this all the time. It is hard to figure out if he has a low run or AAxx. With the deuces out there it is very possible Jeppe Bech has a 2. Most all of the time villain will fold to your turn bet, the flop bets will likely be called.
Villain was stubborn and did not believe AAxx or a random deuce. But most of the time villain will fold here.
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